Thursday, April 27, 2006

Marching into history

Well, this is not considered a good thing by me, an immigrant myself, but pro-immigrant activists have organized marches and demonstrations for the first of May all over the US. Estimates expect a few million latinos to pour the streets of Los Angelos in demand for amnesty of illegal aliens.
Other cities that expect high turnouts are Chicago, Phoenix, New York, Fresno and Tuscon. Some businesses are even voluntarily closing down for the day in New York so that their workers can attend and a big agribusiness company called Cargill Inc. is planning to close seven of their meat packing businesses to facilitate workers to go and march.

Not everyone in the Latino community apparently is behind this blanket demand for amnesty and even fear backlashes from , as it is called, Middle America. Well, consider all over America. I think it is absolutely ridiculous to even consider this notion and to me, for those who will participate, I think they show not to have any brains at all to even think that that is something they can expect. But, we are not talking about the highly educated masses of course. More or less, whipped into a frenzy by extreme activists I feel.

No extreme demand or solution in any given situation will work or be accepted when you deal with more than , oh say, 4 people. So to me this is just a futile exercise if amnesty is expectd to be granted. However, the organizers could very well have long term notions and use this as a way to bring this issue to a head. Either way, I don't think it will do the ordinary, hardworking illegal alien any good in the short or long term. It is already a hot button issue for certain communities who have been adversly affected by illegal immigration (losing jobs or increase in crime or property damage by crossing illegals) and this will put oil on a fire.

Something needs to be done but as I mentioned before, the situation needs to be addressed in Mexico as well as the US. I sure hope there will not be a backlash or some violent reactions to people who are just trying to work and live in peace, because often, they are the ones who will bear the brunt of the incendiaries.

No felony status for illegal aliens, but no blanket amnesty either.


Anonymous coffee_guy said...

how about automatic citizenship after serving 5 years in the US military.

I think those that are protesting the loudest are the one who are paying the lowest wages. Most Americans probably wouldn't mind all the illegal imagrants it they follow these simple rules

1. learn to speak English
2. Apply for citinzenship
3. pay taxes

I know it's simplistic but it's a start

10:52 AM  
Blogger Ingrid said...

The thing with immigration in all countries is that there is some sort of a 'sorting' process. You need to make sure that criminal elements stay out (that's kinda funny in this context since those elements are already here and not via legal means either,anyhow), you (as in, any given country) needs to think of what kind of population increase they can handle and it is also the practicality of being able to support said citizenry. That is one of the reasons why illegal immigration is such a hot topic in the first place; it places real and high financial burdens on social services, hospitals, schools that the legal, established citizenry has to carry the burden of financing.
Some people 'confuse' the issue with discrimination,but it is to me a clear distinction of being able to support or not.
You do not invite more people over to dinner when you only can provide so much food. It is not a "Jesus with the many loaves of bread and fish" kinda thing, that was metaphysical anyway.
Another thing is, that if those demonstrating latinos want to make a point of how much money our society benefits from by them shopping at grocery stores and clothing stores etc..well, that money should be converted into how much money the country is 'owed' in taxes that go to schooling and feeding in some instances and providing medical care to illegal aliens. Then you can do some comparison..them being a financial benefit is apples and oranges; the money is not going to where it needs to go.

12:12 PM  
Blogger le.voyageur said...

was wondering when u'ed get to this topic. u know, they have had amnesties before, during bush 1's time, not sure, but even in reagans time, anyway, they have had them.

this has been on the bloggerspeare for the past 2 months ad nauseum, and interestingly enough, many instances the ones vehemently against it,have been recent immigrants themselves, one commenter cited not wanting to let in the -riff-raff (ingrid, check out sepia' stak eon it, where majority of th ereadership is south asian educated professional class in their 30's, unmarried, without children, very enlightening indeed).

coffee_guy: english, i agree with. but, in my old russian neighbourhood i'd say 45% dont speak a word, and they have been here 30+ yrs. many of the stores are owned by community members also, so no need to speak the language ever. taxes, everybody on workpermits pay taxes, including, for some bizzare screw-us reason, ss and medicaid, which they will never be eligible for, not being citizens. citizenship, many would, if they were allowed to. the greencard process even for corporate sponsored is so frigging arduos, it is set up for maximum taxation with no representation or rights. as a non-citizen, even if u are here legally, u do not have th esam erights as citizenseg. u can be held without bail or charge for unlimited time, been there in the books long before 2001 as well. at another time, they had a revolution fo rthis exact reason, funny isnt it...

in our city, immigrants are a lifesblood, illegal or otherwise. having lived in a partof the u.s. that had a whole lot of a particular kind, who seemed a drain on the social fabric, that same kind in this city are indispensible. many of them are probably uneducated, and def. undocumented, my guess. i say the city woudl come to a grinding halt were it not for particular groups...

sorry ingrid, easier to comment on urs than write on mine... =)

12:53 PM  
Blogger Ingrid said...

m'sier voyageur..
point taken. I guess for the sake of this post I was merely talking about mexican illegal immigrants. Also, I know indeed how arduous the green card process is and I think there is a few thousand limit as to how many people are allowed to become citizens each year so even if all the illegal aliens wanted to switch status, they couldn't be processed speedily at all. And yes, I do take your point that in some parts of the country, or even in predominantly certain cities, work and life would seize to function. However, I understand it is not a quick fix, black and white issue. I only take issue with demanding blanket citizen ship. matter if you rather comment on my blog than write your own (after all, good for me, comment equals feedback and I hopefully will get better at my writing). I have not had the time to read that much online and I have been limited by reading blogs like the religious policeman, saudi jeans, mahmoud's den, saw sepia and that is way over my head because to get into that groove, I need to read everyday and I am not totally familiar with their cultural take, plus docstrangelove which I also enjoy and life of mansur. Also recently found anthony but I need to find that again through a saudi jeans post. So..I'm sorry if I seemed to jump on the bandwagon but I had no idea that this was the big hot topic issue in the blogosphere (duh)..
anyhoo, thanks for stopping by and maybe just write once a week on yours just to get into your own groove..

1:39 PM  
Blogger Rancher said...

I don't mind legal immigration, let in as many Mexicans as we need, just let us know who they are. Something worth noting when it comes to a guest worker program, it won’t be Mexicans recruited by the contractors to come here. Mexico is a rather prosperous country when compared to other third world countries. It can’t compete with cheap Chinese labor for instance. An Egyptian makes half the Mexican average wage, India and Indonesia one-third. Pakistani’s one-quarter. We may see a lot more Islamic guest workers than Mexican.

4:08 PM  
Blogger le.voyageur said...

heehee, ingrid, there's politickign blogs about, we stick to art, and so nice to drop by for tea once in a while isnt it...

yeah, i get what ur sayign about too many blogs, not enough time.. i quit sepia reading, they were getting a bit pompous, and not in a rP fun kind of way either, just plain ole btiych.

rancher: re. mex vs other developing world immigration, yes, ur right. mexican immigration tends to be fluid, they come, they work, and they dont necessarily always stay. a short term agricultural or service based work visa would make that border a lot more easy to patrol and control. others come to stay,looong term, and muslim or otherwise, many who get proper working papers are highly qualified and hardcore professioanl fields, i.e. medicine, engineering, law, finance IT etc... my experience has been, this grup, are mor einterested in pursuing the american dream, and that ole upgrade to the next model toyota, then lexus, then mercedes.

the ones who come legally but arent in the pro.field are a cat of a very different coat. no diff. then poor working classes in this country.

legal immigration is SOOOO behind, as in 4-7 yrs for people with everything in order, its easier to do the diversity lottery to get greencards.

in th emean time, immigraton lawyers rake it in like no ones busniess whetehr one gets approved or not.

btw, ingrid, its been so "current" due to the immigraton bill in congress which was so hotly debated, affects all immigrants, legal or otherwise...

5:45 PM  
Blogger Ingrid said...

Rancher, even though the Mexicans in comparison to the other countries are more prosperous, don't you think that they would be continued to recruited with the same salaries? I think it's too difficult for say, Egyptians or Chinese (poor ones) to come over here for work. As for the relative prosperity of the Mexicans, like here, there are some major 'gaps' if you will between rich and poor and various degrees in between. Btw..checked out your site, looks pretty interesting, I'll revisit, welcome!
M'sieur voyeur...ya think I should worry about this immigration bill?? You mentioned something about legal immigrants needing to's that?
Did you know that if I committed a felony (heaven forbid I would, I don't think I ever will) I'd chance getting booted out of the country? But hey, when you think that Uncle Sam already checks everyone out, legal, all american what we read and where etc..well, it just makes me feel so much more part of things that we all are ultimately fair game! sigh...
(oh, and I KNOW that you know that was sarcasm...hehe)

7:01 PM  
Blogger le.voyageur said...

i had a collegue, of british origin, grew up in the US catsgills or something, very british i must say, and a incredible professional and gentleman, one of the most intelligent and interesting person i have ever known, specialised in neurological bio..yada yada.. anyway, he used to do training with the feds and lectured on biochemical terrorism at hospitals and other first responders. i remember him sayign that he fairly recently got citizenship, seeing as having a greencard was no guarantee of anything. gc holders are legal aliens, and as noncitizens, u.s. constituional law may not apply.. so no miranda rights, no bail, of if u get picked up, as a non-citizen, u basically do not have rights. constitutional rights are guaranteed for Citizens, which gc's arent.

btw, voyeur is very different from voyageur... misseee!!

and whats with the kiddie thing!!??!!


hey! after u spends ur day having to write and talk properly, skipping vowels and consonants for leisure is bound to happen...

s'y our blog is for me completely different from my real life...

please feel free to comment on the photography and/or paintings we put up. the photos are coming more slowly as i do more of that on flickr forums etc...

8:50 PM  
Blogger Ingrid said...

SOOORRRRYYY! Too funny, a lil' slip of the spoonerism brain type.. MONSIEUR VOYAAAgeur....
ha, I got a good laugh out of that, I needed it..
and I was just kiddiie-ing around on that other, ahem, comment thingy. I actually normally don't participate in the jocular, arrren't we all so drole kinda thing on the RP site. I figure it's almost like IM-ing and I don't have time for that. Plus, it's kinda cliquesh in a way and I just like to read RP's posts and the comments as well for the interesting contributions or sometimes funny commentary,'s not why I go there. And sure, I will leave come comments on your site..pardon the lurking..
I get interrupted at times by my brood and then I remember that yes, I cannot ignore them for too long!

8:58 PM  
Blogger le.voyageur said...

hee hee.. well, fine than, i shall just go and have a few cosmos, seeing as its friday and all... am trying a new rasberry cranberry thing...

rancher, dont look now, but just saw a thing about the nat'l anthem in spanish.. next, parsi in south beach, yiddish inmiami, and russian or hindi in queens nyc...

its the latinisation of the culture that i think people really ought to be worried more about then muslification as some in rP are fearful of...

9:14 PM  
Blogger le.voyageur said...

PS: u need an icon! could have the hosuehold pro do one for ya, if u have an idea of what represents u.. every bloger needs atleast one icon...

9:23 PM  
Blogger Ingrid said...

Hey cool idea D! Well, my other blog (which hasn't gotten off yet but I am hopeful to get an interview sometime soon (hehe) and that site is called "Texas Dutchie Interviews" .. on one newsgroup they know me as 'Dutchie' so perhaps something along those lines?
How do you add that on anyway on a comment page? I was telling one of my blogging friends that I was not quite understanding something inspite of reading through my blogging for dummies book but hey...can't be super smart all the time..btw...thx for the's nice to know I have my own household pro AND referencer/blog researcher! ha!
I am turning in now..
hope those cosmos were good...

11:10 PM  
Blogger le.voyageur said...

well, first, throw out ur blogging for dummies book! what happened to the spirit of exploration!?!! just muck around and figur eit all out urself. worst case, just back up ur template into a word or text file everytime u decide tomake changes or try something new.

the buddy icon u upload into a post, save it as draft, so no one sees it. then u preview it, and click on the image so it goes to its own page. copy the url, and then paste it in ur profile in Dashboard, all very simple.

uploading images is easy also, when ur on ur post page, click ont he little frame icon in the top right, and then upload from ur pc.mac. but, u already knew all of this.

12:34 AM  
Blogger tooners said...

Hi Ingrid, thanks for stopping by my blog. Thought I'd come by and check yours out.

Interesting topic here. I have to say that I'm really ready for them to do something about this issue in the U.S. I disagree w/ Mexicans/Latinos (as they're now called) coming over and getting *free* healthcare, *free* education if they are born in the U.S. - even if their parents are still illegal - they drive around w/out insurance and sometimes w/out licenses, many ppl rent houses and then bring their whole families or live 14 or 15 to a house, I think there are those that have a criminal-like mentality and that's dangerous, they don't pay taxes... just so many things.

I am all for stopping the illegals from coming into the country. I saw this morning on PrimeTime (in Bahrain, so have no idea when it was aired in the U.S.) that they're looking at getting the same planes they're using in Iraq to stop the illegals from coming over from Mexico. The planes they're using in Iraq are currently shooting missiles at insurgents, etc., so it made me wonder if they're planning on killing these aliens or what as they try to cross. Couldn't quite make out what they're planning on doing.

Anyway... great blog you have! Thanks for your wisdom, kindness and comments on mine, I appreciate it.

3:17 AM  
Blogger Ingrid said...

Thanks for the compliment Tooners. It would seem that a lot of legal immigrants such as myself are very much against this thing of giving people blanket citizenship. It is a shame because a lot of people are equating this with being 'right'politically and discriminating. I am not blaming the illegals for wanting to become American or have a legal status. The way it is structured it would take way too many years to get processed for either greencard or citizen ship. Companies and governments, especially the federal one is guilty for not dealing with it properly all those years and turning a blind eye for the sake of cheap labour. However, there needs to be a practical solution because as you said, it is much too costly on schools and hospitals. There is only so much people can financially carry.
I am glad I found your blog btw. It takes a while to build up a set of blogs to read with the gazillion weird, too personal, or just plain uninteresting ones. I'll keep checking in on yours and I am glad you like mine. I don't have a counter yet so I have no idea of my traffic if it hits home or not. There are always people who are readers/lurkers, but not commenters.
See you around here or on your blog,

9:29 AM  
Blogger le.voyageur said...

tooners: did ya mean these. (i tried to insert picture, but big brother google.blogger doesnt want to play today...

i doubt they would be firing missiles, the migrants not being combatants, though throwing out leaflets in spanish might work.

funny, non immigrant expats dont seem to have a problem with this issue as much, and as the recent day without immigrants showed monday, many many politicians and businesses are probably not going to mind a whole lot as before either.

12:27 PM  
Blogger tooners said...

le.voyageur - YES, those are the planes. Yeah, I couldn't understand the logic behind using these planes on the border.

I doubt if throwing out leaflets would work really because these ppl truly want to come to the States in order to make money and live and are willing to do whatever it takes to succeed.

They have good work ethics, that's for sure, and that's why so many companies and such hire them.

I agree w/ you Ingrid, I think that the U.S. should have done something about this issue a long time ago. They've talked about it a lot and tried to enforce it but... no one 'really' got behind it.

I don't disagree w/ ppl coming to the States, I just think that it's unfair for so many to get things for free when there are so many Americans that desperately need medical services, educational services, etc. and don't get it because they can't afford it. It isn't right.

They need to revamp the whole system but w/ billy bush in the White House or the likes, I just can't see it happening any time soon.

Thanks for checking out my blog. There are many more topics that I'd love to talk about.. but I feel somewhat restricted in that this is a VERY small country and word spreads... fast! I tend to piss ppl off and Lord knows it wouldn't look good for the family. Anyway, such is life.

1:48 AM  
Blogger Ingrid said...

Tooners, if talking about different things are a 'challenge' as they say in popular speech..come on over and let it all out. If that would work. I'll still have to work on getting that neocounter thingy up (so you can even check to see how many bahrainis check this out, I'm being totally presumptious now because aside from commenters, I don't have a clue who 'shows up'.
If you would like me to discuss certain topics, email me and I will touch base on them. I know that when I was in Saudi Arabia post-Gulf war, with all the censorship, I was so hungry for talking about politics or anything challenging, because I come from that kind of family.
By all means, let me know.

9:36 AM  
Blogger le.voyageur said...

actually, tooners, the predator was initial developed and used as reconnaissance uav's, so, for eyes int he sky, these would be perfect for border patrol. they are flown by people usually sitting in a base station, which can also be mobile. once you detect a large band, or individuals crossing, or about to, then base can let patrol know to intercede or pick up. make slogical sense, doesn not make sense in any other way. people will still find ways to get across.

they added the missile ability later i think, to cut out troop engagement, so when you see enemy, you can remote take them out as it were. these are cheaper than sending stealth or conventional aircrafts, also, no one gets hurt if these get shot down.

see, i watch a lot of pbs, and am a big tom clancy fan to boot.


1:52 PM  

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