Wednesday, August 02, 2006

The 'strange' notion of why Americans ('s politicians) fear criticizing Israel

Coming from the Netherlands, I have found it strange how an entire nation or media (generalizing a bit for the sake of argument, it's of course not totally black and white), could be so afraid to be critical of Israel. The Dutch can be critical and at the same time seperate themselves personally as they know it's an understood thing that when you criticize, you do not necessarily dismiss the whole person but the behaviour.

Currently, the DailyKos and others are jumping on the bandwagon, fearing to criticize Israel's current campaign. To me, that is not even of benefit to Israel itself. Say what, you say? How can 'pandering' to someone or a country, really help that said entity? I fear it has the opposite effect. The more people put themselves into opposing camps, never honestly tackling an issue, that the object of anger, becomes not only those, who never critique, but the object of protection. In this case Israel. I feel that in all those years, of Israel being protected by the US' veto after veto at the UN, in the face of majority disagreement, that it has been a detriment to Israel itself. But that is for another time.

This is what Booman had to say;
It's not only Markos, but Kevin Drum, Josh Marshall and others that have explained their unwillingness to discuss the conflagration in Israel. The rationale varies, but the underlying problem is the same. The left wing in this country is generally critical of Israel's settlement policy and supportive of a negotiated settlement along the lines laid out by Bill Clinton in 2000. Yet, the vast majority of American Jews are Democratic voters and important as activists and fundraisers for the party.
There is no better way to splinter the left than to put the behavior of Israel front and center in the national debate. The Republicans will offer their uncritical support for anything Israel does, and the left will flounder about trying to appear fair and balanced. There will be no shortage of anti-Israel comments to cite emerging from the left blogosphere, even if only from the diaries of community sites and the comments. And, no matter what "big-name" bloggers try to do in the way of coordinating the message, there will be plenty of ammunition to bring to the Jewish community as evidence of ambivalence or distaste for Israel from the left.

Click on quote. That is why I am glad that my circle of bloggers are unafraid to speak out, regardless of each other's opinions. We respect each other and do not necessarily lean al the way to the left, or a bit out of center (sorry, can't say I know any right leaning blogger..yet!) The 'left' is a vast expanse and the opinions do not as much matter, as the attitude to allow differing viewpoints.. that attitude will help discourse, let's continue to fight for that.


Blogger Jeremiah Bullfrog said...

I is a right leanin blogger and I can tells ya why America lovin folks dont criticize Israel....

It is because they is God's chosen people thats why...

I mean until Jesus comes back and casts them into the pits of Hell with all y'all librals

Then Jesus is gonna take us Christians inta his lovin arms and fairy us off ta Heaven where we is gonna be in charge baby!

If y'all librals is nice I might ask Jesus ta give you sum Ice cubes whilst you is a' burnin with them thar Jews...

BTW git outta America you dang foriner! We aint got enuff ta spare! Probably here takin people's jobs and such...No wonder I caint git no work!

6:50 PM  
Blogger Ingrid said...

Jeremiah! I'm honoured! A veritable visit via Mash no doubt! (don't let the big words intimidate you).. as for me taking your job..I've been looking for someone to stay home with the kids, driving them to school and cooking and cleaning and shopping (for groceries, am not much of a shopaholic and don't contribute much to the American economy that way) so I can do my full time writing...but..that..'gitter dun' speak sounds more like you're from Alabama or someplace over there..not close enough to come over and work for pittance..sigh.. ah well, the thought was nice while it lasted...
Ingrid, FINALLY finding a right leaning blogger..or should I just say, fundamentally right?! hehe

8:47 PM  
Blogger El Mas Chingón said...

That's one reason why I don't frequent places like DailyKos. I don't want to preach to a choir with a herd mentality. I'd rather be here in the blogosphere and freely speak my mind.

Both sides are wrong in this matter and I stand by those words.

4:56 AM  
Blogger Ingrid said...

Ah Robbie, are you 'back in business'? As in, writing wise? James checked out your poker post but I haven't been back thinking you're not into the politics for a while..I'll have to make sure you didn't 'slip'! Good to see you again.

7:27 AM  
Blogger Cyberotter said...

While I enjoy a good parody as much as the next person, it's a shame Mr. Bullfrog didn't really say anything. Israel and blogging have a 2-fold problem. First there is reverse discrimination enhanced by guilt and empathy. Secondly the stereotype of the powerful Jew and the finite control over media outlets is not that far from the truth. A great example (albeit extreme) is Mel Gibson. He knows that he had better start shmoozing the Jewish community leaders as he just put 100 million dollars of his own money into a movie that is about to be released.

12:50 PM  
Blogger El Mas Chingón said...

I'm still posting when I can. Besides work, I write four hours a day five to six days a week for my novel, and then I blog when I can. I'll have this week's WSOP post up this weekend.

5:01 PM  
Blogger El Mas Chingón said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

5:02 PM  
Blogger Kel said...

Good post Ingrid and great work from Billmon as well. I have been rather disgusted by the approach taken to this by Markos at Daily Kos as his argument seems to "it's all very complcated and extremists at both sides have learnt all the facts so it's impossible to establish any truth - so why bother?"

It's an argument that is constructed in such a clunking manner that's impossible to believe that he truly means it, it comes across as a way of trying to find a moral high ground on which to ignore atrocities simply because you happen to support the country that is committing the said atrocities.

But to be fair, I mostly ignore Daily Kos as I find their whole attitude really patronising. It's little things like a comments section that demands you "discuss" as if a teacher is setting his pupils their lesson for the day and will judge later whether or not the gave the "right" answers.

4:25 AM  
Blogger Ingrid said...

robbie, I'll have to tell James about that post when he returns on sunday, he's out for his annual retreat.
Kel,I never got a good vibe at Daily Kos,it's the 'being loud' and reactive comments that irritate me. It seems like a blog for the young and the restless, although that said, no doubt not everything is irritating's definitely not my crowd.. it's a shame that the vocal commenters are the ones to turn you off (speaking of myself). I used to go to this site once where this core group was all chummy with each other, but if they or one of them did not like what someone else had to say, look out. It got off topic and it all ended up being about the commenters (trying to be cute with each other and flirty), that core group..which was extremely far, can't complain of that here! lol

9:08 AM  
Blogger Kel said...


I think there's a group of us forming that accept that we share different beliefs about many things but share many more where we totally agree.

At Kos, I've never really got past thinking of Markos as a Republican who's changed sides but still holds a Republican mindset. He now wants to tell Democrats how they should think and what they should do to gain power.

The only thing that remains constant though, is that Markos is in charge.

I much prefer our set up, where we all have equal status.

3:26 PM  
Blogger Ingrid said...

Kel, I am afraid that when Daily Kos came about, I was still in the 'fog of kids'. I do not know enough about the different politicians as I have gone through having had two kids, been in various stages and lenghts of sleep deprivation, and moved about 4 times, including 3 seperate states. All I can do now, (TICK TOCK)when both (!!)my kids will go to school (even though one still part time but at least every day so) is catch up, continue to find my voice and writing style, and hopefully be better informed than I am now. I totally agree with you; we've got a good thing going!! I am more pleased about that than anything because ultimately, none of us is going to have an impact on anyone reading our blog, unless the person reading and receiving it was ready to do so. Plus, it is always always about the attitude of mutual acceptance that will further discourse, even if people keep disagreeing. Nothing is worse, than if people who you normally agree with, turn on you simply because you don't agree with everything.. so Kel, are you saying we ought to start up our own group blog? (other than the joining of bloggers against torture?) Now that would make for an interesting proposition!

4:01 PM  

Post a Comment

Subscribe to Post Comments [Atom]

Links to this post:

Create a Link

<< Home